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Pre-dev Log #11: More Deckbuilder, Less Survival (Still Cosy + Highly Streamlined)
Posted: Sat, 02 May 12:18:09
PART 18: DEADWOOD IS SOMETIMES NICE...
(1) I spoke before about the idea of letting deadwood -- all the things holding your game back, bloating it, confusing it, infecting it -- fade away. But deadwood is sometimes nice. It still must fade away (usually). It depends on the tightness of the system, and its focus, and how many primary subsystems you have. In this case, I came up with an interesting idea of collecting resources, and Crafting Items in a Minecraft-like style. But I realised that it would work much better as a video game, or else if the Roguelike or deckbuilding element didn't exist.
As it stands, North of the Snow seems much better without the additional cards, systems, mechanics, admin, and table space. The primary thing it was achieving was the idea of Campfires to Heal HP. Then I stepped back, and realised the blindingly obvious: instead of using cards to represent Tree nodes as to gather Wood by cutting them down, then make a Campfire I could simply use the cards to represent a Campfire you discover. This works very well in streamlining the process, removing unnecessary and time-consuming components and mechanics, further tightening the entire theme, helping to drive forward momentum towards the end of the run, and focusing the gameplay on the deckbuilding combat aspect. It also worked out well to use these Campfire cards, since they're randomly placed in with the snowy wilderness cards -- you can see where the Campfires are, and can choose to travel towards them. This helps the player have more information and options, but it's also thematic, as you would actually be able to see a fire from far away in a flat/fairly empty forest snowy landscape (assuming no major downfall/visibility issues).
This change saved about 30 cards/tokens, and a lot of time and table space, and ensures that each run is a little less random (beyond the draw of the Campfire cards in the first place, since it's possible to not find any Campfires, though unlikely).
And I originally created an additional storage/Inventory system, but I think it works best as a tight management game, with a lot of randomness, and a high replay value at a fast pace (some runs being better than others, and most runs being very fast, so you never lose much time when a run goes badly). This also saved time, table space, and cards. And it helps to cut down on player analysis and mental book-keeping, as it were, which takes even more time.
(2) I scraped the original HP/card/Inventory system. I suppose it could have worked, but it didn't seem like it was working for North of the Snow.
(3) In trying to figure out the new HP system, I went through a few ideas about Energy/HP, Tool Upgrades, and an Exertion mechanic. What I really needed to figure out was the best way to create some kind of power-up system, as opposed to everything being flat (unchanging, single-function, one-level, universal, default, etc.). Ultimately, I settled on what we currently have, in keeping with the rest of the game and the other changes.
Buttons. No real reason the Buttons are your Health -- just to add to the whimsical, fantasy, cosy nature of the game. You begin with 10 Buttons, and it Regenerate to a maximum of 5 whenever you Heal by eating Fish, but this can be increased to a maximum of 10 via Upgrades. Then, you can earn a maximum of 10 additional, temporary Buttons. When you lose these, they're gone, and you cannot Heal back to them (anything beyond 10). You must re-earn them. This means, at most, you can have 20 Buttons.
The final twist is the Exertion mechanic. Instead of Tool Upgrades or dice pools or whatsoever, there is a standard rate of gathering Resources via Actions, etc. This is improved by Exertion. For example, let's say you Fish. The Standard Fishing Action offers 1 Fish (random). But if you want more Fish, you can perform an Exertion Action by spending your Buttons. This is quite an elegant system, both thematically and mechanically, and takes up no more table space, and requires nothing but Buttons (either actual tokens/buttons, or else cards). 1 Button = 1 additional Action. In this case, you would lose 1 Button and gain 2 Fish, instead of 1.
The beauty of this system is the baked-in dynamic difficulty and player priority system. If you want to focus on Buttons as to not die and/or play risky tactics in the combat encounters, you must sacrifice on gaining more Fish or Ores (the two Standard/Skilling Actions), and GP (Gold Pieces) and/or future Upgrades, as a result. The way the game currently works is, you must gain GP by selling Fish and/or Ores, and use the GP to buy cards in the deckbuilding section of the game, thereby improving the combat side of things. On the other hand, if you want to risk being low on Buttons and die early, or feel confident in the combat encounters, you can choose to gain many more Fish and Ores. In the long run, this will give you more GP, and more Upgrades/better combat results, as a result. Clearly, this system favours the better and/or luckier player. It's a balancing act for each player -- but it's not actively punishing the bad or unlucky player. And having more Buttons in the long run can help to gain Fish and Ores at a slow, steady rate, so it's not exactly an all-or-nothing system. In theory, this should work well...
In removing so much of the game, I'm judging the players. I'm judging that most players will be happier with a deckbuilder, with a fairly fast-paced, simple survival aspect that also ties into the combat, mining, Fishing, Upgrades, and Roguelike map. It's all interconnected and seamless, I pray. I know some players would have enjoyed the more RPG-heavy, immersive, larger survival section direction. But my guess is that many players would ultimately feel like the non-combat portion was nothing more than admin and a 'chore', taking away from the flow of the game and the meat/core mechanic (deckbuilding). It's better than people wish aspect B had more content than no content, or far less content. It's better to wish than dread. (You know like how sometimes a secondary character is great in a film or TV show, and you wish they had their own show... only their own show proves dull and pointless, and they're not nearly as good anymore. That's because everything has a time and a place, and a balance. They're great exactly because they're in a secondary role, helping to support and define the structure -- they are not the structure themselves. I believe games are like that, when it comes to subsystem A vs. B, or core mechanic A vs. B.)
Here is the table setup at the moment (deckbuilding card slots in the centre; not figured out yet -- that comes next).
/pic9559612.jpg)
I made sure to fit everything in a 4 by 2 ft area, including all the bags/storage cups and related. It's still compatible with Stardew Valley: The Board Game (2021) -- you just don't need nearly as much. The deckbuilding cards will be 100% custom/print & play. At the same time, I was very mindful of what I'll term excessive gesturing. In this context, 'gesturing' refers to whenever you have to physically move something, and must move your hand/arm around the table, to pick things up and place them down, and flip over cards, and shuffle decks, and draw cards, and replace down cards, and move tokens/chits, and turn dials, etc. 'Excessive' is whenever you have to perform many physical gestures or movements of any kind in a short period of time and/or when the gestures are practically unnecessary, and only exist due to bloated or opaque game design (i.e. moving one token from location A to location B, to then use it for Action X, and return it to location A, or else place it in location C).
I hate gesturing. Ideally, board games should be as close to video games as possible -- automatic, nested, embedded, and multi-function. Mechanics and rules and components should all be doing at least two things at once, mechanically and/or thematically, with as much clarity and depth as possible, and as few gestures and time as possible, without additional book-keeping or the issue of floating modifiers (i.e. effects/game states, etc. you must mentally track over time, or else write them down, beyond the scope of the core book-keeping).
Gesturing in Roguelikes is an even larger problem, due to the need for a rapid setup time, which happens every 5-30 minutes (60 minutes at most). Every new run or 'level' within the run, etc. needs a change in game state. This is a nightmare if you have to move lots of miniatures around, flip over 20 cards, or reshuffle and draw 20 cards, and otherwise. I'm going to do my best in this regard! In line with the gutting of the non-deckbuilding side of things, I want to aim for 30-minute runs as opposed to the original 60-minutes runs. Assuming most players seek a 60-minute play session, that means two runs per session, which seems reasonable to me. We'll see!
And the new cover (button graphics + new subtitle).
/pic9559613.jpg)
Posted: Sat, 02 May 12:18:09
by M Charles
'Ello, M. Charles here.PART 18: DEADWOOD IS SOMETIMES NICE...
(1) I spoke before about the idea of letting deadwood -- all the things holding your game back, bloating it, confusing it, infecting it -- fade away. But deadwood is sometimes nice. It still must fade away (usually). It depends on the tightness of the system, and its focus, and how many primary subsystems you have. In this case, I came up with an interesting idea of collecting resources, and Crafting Items in a Minecraft-like style. But I realised that it would work much better as a video game, or else if the Roguelike or deckbuilding element didn't exist.
As it stands, North of the Snow seems much better without the additional cards, systems, mechanics, admin, and table space. The primary thing it was achieving was the idea of Campfires to Heal HP. Then I stepped back, and realised the blindingly obvious: instead of using cards to represent Tree nodes as to gather Wood by cutting them down, then make a Campfire I could simply use the cards to represent a Campfire you discover. This works very well in streamlining the process, removing unnecessary and time-consuming components and mechanics, further tightening the entire theme, helping to drive forward momentum towards the end of the run, and focusing the gameplay on the deckbuilding combat aspect. It also worked out well to use these Campfire cards, since they're randomly placed in with the snowy wilderness cards -- you can see where the Campfires are, and can choose to travel towards them. This helps the player have more information and options, but it's also thematic, as you would actually be able to see a fire from far away in a flat/fairly empty forest snowy landscape (assuming no major downfall/visibility issues).
This change saved about 30 cards/tokens, and a lot of time and table space, and ensures that each run is a little less random (beyond the draw of the Campfire cards in the first place, since it's possible to not find any Campfires, though unlikely).
And I originally created an additional storage/Inventory system, but I think it works best as a tight management game, with a lot of randomness, and a high replay value at a fast pace (some runs being better than others, and most runs being very fast, so you never lose much time when a run goes badly). This also saved time, table space, and cards. And it helps to cut down on player analysis and mental book-keeping, as it were, which takes even more time.
(2) I scraped the original HP/card/Inventory system. I suppose it could have worked, but it didn't seem like it was working for North of the Snow.
(3) In trying to figure out the new HP system, I went through a few ideas about Energy/HP, Tool Upgrades, and an Exertion mechanic. What I really needed to figure out was the best way to create some kind of power-up system, as opposed to everything being flat (unchanging, single-function, one-level, universal, default, etc.). Ultimately, I settled on what we currently have, in keeping with the rest of the game and the other changes.
Buttons. No real reason the Buttons are your Health -- just to add to the whimsical, fantasy, cosy nature of the game. You begin with 10 Buttons, and it Regenerate to a maximum of 5 whenever you Heal by eating Fish, but this can be increased to a maximum of 10 via Upgrades. Then, you can earn a maximum of 10 additional, temporary Buttons. When you lose these, they're gone, and you cannot Heal back to them (anything beyond 10). You must re-earn them. This means, at most, you can have 20 Buttons.
The final twist is the Exertion mechanic. Instead of Tool Upgrades or dice pools or whatsoever, there is a standard rate of gathering Resources via Actions, etc. This is improved by Exertion. For example, let's say you Fish. The Standard Fishing Action offers 1 Fish (random). But if you want more Fish, you can perform an Exertion Action by spending your Buttons. This is quite an elegant system, both thematically and mechanically, and takes up no more table space, and requires nothing but Buttons (either actual tokens/buttons, or else cards). 1 Button = 1 additional Action. In this case, you would lose 1 Button and gain 2 Fish, instead of 1.
The beauty of this system is the baked-in dynamic difficulty and player priority system. If you want to focus on Buttons as to not die and/or play risky tactics in the combat encounters, you must sacrifice on gaining more Fish or Ores (the two Standard/Skilling Actions), and GP (Gold Pieces) and/or future Upgrades, as a result. The way the game currently works is, you must gain GP by selling Fish and/or Ores, and use the GP to buy cards in the deckbuilding section of the game, thereby improving the combat side of things. On the other hand, if you want to risk being low on Buttons and die early, or feel confident in the combat encounters, you can choose to gain many more Fish and Ores. In the long run, this will give you more GP, and more Upgrades/better combat results, as a result. Clearly, this system favours the better and/or luckier player. It's a balancing act for each player -- but it's not actively punishing the bad or unlucky player. And having more Buttons in the long run can help to gain Fish and Ores at a slow, steady rate, so it's not exactly an all-or-nothing system. In theory, this should work well...
In removing so much of the game, I'm judging the players. I'm judging that most players will be happier with a deckbuilder, with a fairly fast-paced, simple survival aspect that also ties into the combat, mining, Fishing, Upgrades, and Roguelike map. It's all interconnected and seamless, I pray. I know some players would have enjoyed the more RPG-heavy, immersive, larger survival section direction. But my guess is that many players would ultimately feel like the non-combat portion was nothing more than admin and a 'chore', taking away from the flow of the game and the meat/core mechanic (deckbuilding). It's better than people wish aspect B had more content than no content, or far less content. It's better to wish than dread. (You know like how sometimes a secondary character is great in a film or TV show, and you wish they had their own show... only their own show proves dull and pointless, and they're not nearly as good anymore. That's because everything has a time and a place, and a balance. They're great exactly because they're in a secondary role, helping to support and define the structure -- they are not the structure themselves. I believe games are like that, when it comes to subsystem A vs. B, or core mechanic A vs. B.)
Here is the table setup at the moment (deckbuilding card slots in the centre; not figured out yet -- that comes next).
I made sure to fit everything in a 4 by 2 ft area, including all the bags/storage cups and related. It's still compatible with Stardew Valley: The Board Game (2021) -- you just don't need nearly as much. The deckbuilding cards will be 100% custom/print & play. At the same time, I was very mindful of what I'll term excessive gesturing. In this context, 'gesturing' refers to whenever you have to physically move something, and must move your hand/arm around the table, to pick things up and place them down, and flip over cards, and shuffle decks, and draw cards, and replace down cards, and move tokens/chits, and turn dials, etc. 'Excessive' is whenever you have to perform many physical gestures or movements of any kind in a short period of time and/or when the gestures are practically unnecessary, and only exist due to bloated or opaque game design (i.e. moving one token from location A to location B, to then use it for Action X, and return it to location A, or else place it in location C).
I hate gesturing. Ideally, board games should be as close to video games as possible -- automatic, nested, embedded, and multi-function. Mechanics and rules and components should all be doing at least two things at once, mechanically and/or thematically, with as much clarity and depth as possible, and as few gestures and time as possible, without additional book-keeping or the issue of floating modifiers (i.e. effects/game states, etc. you must mentally track over time, or else write them down, beyond the scope of the core book-keeping).
Gesturing in Roguelikes is an even larger problem, due to the need for a rapid setup time, which happens every 5-30 minutes (60 minutes at most). Every new run or 'level' within the run, etc. needs a change in game state. This is a nightmare if you have to move lots of miniatures around, flip over 20 cards, or reshuffle and draw 20 cards, and otherwise. I'm going to do my best in this regard! In line with the gutting of the non-deckbuilding side of things, I want to aim for 30-minute runs as opposed to the original 60-minutes runs. Assuming most players seek a 60-minute play session, that means two runs per session, which seems reasonable to me. We'll see!
And the new cover (button graphics + new subtitle).
New comment on Item for GeekList "Solo RPGs on Your Table - May 2026"
Posted: Sat, 02 May 12:16:50
Starforged is awesome! I'm playing two games of it at the moment, oddly neither is solo. One is gm-less 2 players, and the other is gm-less with 3 players.
Posted: Sat, 02 May 12:16:50
by JugglinDan
Related Item: Cepheus Light
drb1004 wrote:
Hmm... I wonder if a rules-light version of Traveller would work better for me that the full thing? Although if I start a solo Sci-Fi game it will probably be Starforged in the first instance.
Starforged is awesome! I'm playing two games of it at the moment, oddly neither is solo. One is gm-less 2 players, and the other is gm-less with 3 players.
Reply: All Us Gamers Inner Core Rules:: Sessions:: Re: Lovecraftian Horror - Warrinjimbah 1919
Posted: Sat, 02 May 11:56:17
Bitty (short for Elizabeth) Smith
Born 1889 in Newcastle in an unofficial maternity ward near the The Ridge and raised as an orphan there (https://lostnewcastle.com.au/the-ridge-merewether/) and moved to “Hill Crest” as the Salvation Army ramped up their official maternity ward. Then to a small, unofficial, orphanage known as Mr Bollinger's. Run by an elderly gent who, himself, had no time for children, and a matron/caregiver known only as Fran. At any time there were only about 10 children there.
In 1909 Bitty was working in a steel mill but had ambitions for more. She met Mrs Wheeler as she and her husband were in the process of founding the small township of Warrinjimbah, seeking employees for the coal mine they had started to operate. With their help Bitty put all her resources into setting up the pub there, and developed it into a thriving business with a men's bar, and a respectable women's bar.
The tragedy of 1918 changed much, Mrs Wheeler and many of the widows began meeting in furtive corners, and coming less often. Bitty has found herself becoming a grief councilor. At the same time the archaeologist, Dr Death (pronounced Deeth), has been coming to the bar a little more frequently, asking small, surreptitious questions about the local aboriginals, and about the impacts of the 1918 losses. Mr Wheeler has decided that the bar should be officially designated a returned service club, although his crippled son is the only returned serviceman in town.
Posted: Sat, 02 May 11:56:17
by DanDare2050
Been working with Krystal during the lead up to the game next Saturday. Here is where we are at with her character:Bitty (short for Elizabeth) Smith
Born 1889 in Newcastle in an unofficial maternity ward near the The Ridge and raised as an orphan there (https://lostnewcastle.com.au/the-ridge-merewether/) and moved to “Hill Crest” as the Salvation Army ramped up their official maternity ward. Then to a small, unofficial, orphanage known as Mr Bollinger's. Run by an elderly gent who, himself, had no time for children, and a matron/caregiver known only as Fran. At any time there were only about 10 children there.
In 1909 Bitty was working in a steel mill but had ambitions for more. She met Mrs Wheeler as she and her husband were in the process of founding the small township of Warrinjimbah, seeking employees for the coal mine they had started to operate. With their help Bitty put all her resources into setting up the pub there, and developed it into a thriving business with a men's bar, and a respectable women's bar.
The tragedy of 1918 changed much, Mrs Wheeler and many of the widows began meeting in furtive corners, and coming less often. Bitty has found herself becoming a grief councilor. At the same time the archaeologist, Dr Death (pronounced Deeth), has been coming to the bar a little more frequently, asking small, surreptitious questions about the local aboriginals, and about the impacts of the 1918 losses. Mr Wheeler has decided that the bar should be officially designated a returned service club, although his crippled son is the only returned serviceman in town.
Reply: General Role-Playing:: Re: QOTD MAY 2: Do your characters ever play games within your rpgs? How do you meditate them?
Posted: Sat, 02 May 11:49:18
Fairly often, actually, especially in Star Wars, Pendragon, L5R, and Traveller...
FFG Star Wars, I use the systems presented in the Scoundrels class splat.
WEG SW, usually just a gambling roll.
Traveller, if it's games of chance, I use a d66 roll, with each odd level adding 1 to the 1's, each even level adding 1 to the 10's. If I have them available, I use poker dice for the 10's place just as a clear difference from normal rolls.
Pendragon, the games are usually word-play games - players who make an effort to create real poetry of the right type get +5 on the compose rolls.
L5R has a gaming skill, so opposed rolls are normal, with modifiers for knowing the opponent's personality.
Posted: Sat, 02 May 11:49:18
by aramis
pdzoch wrote:
A question suggested by [user=Inkwan][/user]
Do your characters ever play games within your rpgs? How do you meditate them?
Do your characters ever play games within your rpgs? How do you meditate them?
Fairly often, actually, especially in Star Wars, Pendragon, L5R, and Traveller...
FFG Star Wars, I use the systems presented in the Scoundrels class splat.
WEG SW, usually just a gambling roll.
Traveller, if it's games of chance, I use a d66 roll, with each odd level adding 1 to the 1's, each even level adding 1 to the 10's. If I have them available, I use poker dice for the 10's place just as a clear difference from normal rolls.
Pendragon, the games are usually word-play games - players who make an effort to create real poetry of the right type get +5 on the compose rolls.
L5R has a gaming skill, so opposed rolls are normal, with modifiers for knowing the opponent's personality.
New comment on Item for GeekList "Solo RPGs on Your Table - May 2026"
Posted: Sat, 02 May 11:49:18
Posted: Sat, 02 May 11:49:18
by drb1004
Related Item: Cepheus Light
Hmm... I wonder if a rules-light version of Traveller would work better for me that the full thing? Although if I start a solo Sci-Fi game it will probably be Starforged in the first instance.
New comment on GeekList Solo RPGs on Your Table - May 2026
Posted: Sat, 02 May 11:48:02
Posted: Sat, 02 May 11:48:02
by drb1004
I'm glad I found you such an appropriate theme!
New comment on Item for GeekList "Solo RPGs on Your Table - May 2026"
Posted: Sat, 02 May 11:45:03
I think I'm the opposite. If I didn't have a game telling me to write and providing prompts, I probably wouldn't bother (much as I like writing!)
Posted: Sat, 02 May 11:45:03
by drb1004
Related Item: Midnight Muscadines
JugglinDan wrote:
I'm not sure if it's the same or not, but I find that some games are harder for me to solo than others. There are few patterns I've identified. It's not system complexity. I just seem to mesh with some games but not with others. The one pattern for me, is that despite how much I write, I find journalling games a much harder slog, like wading through treacle. I think it's that while I like writing, I don't like being told to write, or what.
I think I'm the opposite. If I didn't have a game telling me to write and providing prompts, I probably wouldn't bother (much as I like writing!)
New comment on Item for GeekList "Solo RPGs on Your Table - May 2026"
Posted: Sat, 02 May 11:38:37
Posted: Sat, 02 May 11:38:37
by drb1004
Related Item: Traveller Core Rulebook Update 2022
Did Jay really select full-auto 'by mistake? Was that a Mythic question, or did you choose it for the character?
New comment on Item for GeekList "Solo RPGs on Your Table - May 2026"
Posted: Sat, 02 May 11:36:23
EXTERMINATE!
Posted: Sat, 02 May 11:36:23
by drb1004
Related Item: Traveller Core Rulebook Update 2022
JugglinDan wrote:
[...]He's also got a voder speaker according to the Robot Handbook, so he could once talk. If Ash ever gets time and access to a full robotics lab, she might be able to repair that. Of course, I'm not sure what Sid would say after so many decades or centuries of silence.
EXTERMINATE!
New comment on Item for GeekList "Solo RPGs on Your Table - May 2026"
Posted: Sat, 02 May 11:35:02
Posted: Sat, 02 May 11:35:02
by drb1004
Related Item: Fallout: Wasteland Wanderer: A Solo Roleplaying Game
I know next to nothing about Fallout , so this will be my first experience of it. Looking forward to finding out more about it!
New comment on Item for GeekList "Solo RPGs on Your Table - May 2026"
Posted: Sat, 02 May 11:31:27
Borrow a spare gerbil from my Outliers game.
And in case anyone is wondering, pony (£25), monkey (£500), and grand (£1000) are all cockney rhyming slang for amounts of money.
Posted: Sat, 02 May 11:31:27
by drb1004
Related Item: Paranoia Second Edition
agramore wrote:
I'm not sure I even have a hamster to drop on him.
Borrow a spare gerbil from my Outliers game.
And in case anyone is wondering, pony (£25), monkey (£500), and grand (£1000) are all cockney rhyming slang for amounts of money.
