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Reply: General Role-Playing:: Re: QOTD SEP 15: How do you support role play over roll play?
Posted: Wed, 16 Sep 17:19:03
WoD is, at heart, a very 80s system, not that much different than GURPS or Champions. It's generic and you can basically do anything. There are powers added to each of the iterations to give it mechanical differentiation, much like how the GURPS sourcebooks add various powers for each setting. But the fundamental assumption is that the system should simulate the setting and provide rules for anything a character could conceivably do.
To support politicking, IMO, the system would give XP for doing political things. Earn favors, amass wealth, achieve positions of power, etc. But as is system gives XP on an ad hoc basis, mostly under the judgment of the Storyteller. Players choose Aspirations (which might be political, but might not) which the GM can give XP for, if they're achieved. Or the GM gives XP for accomplishing story goals, showing up, or having dramatic failures.
So I think it's fair to say that in WoD, the politicking is primarily down to the lore of the game. Players are encouraged to engage with the setting, which includes the prohibitions against vamp-on-vamp violence, the position of Prince and Sheriff, and so on. But they could also completely ignore all the social stuff on their character sheet. I am old enough to remember when one of the criticisms made by old WoD fans, when the vampire craze of the 90s hit and there was a massive influx of newbs, was that the new players were just playing D&D, but with fangs and claws instead of swords, and disciplines instead of spells.
And as always, this is not to say that WoD isn't fun or that people haven't had amazing political games using the system. I just don't see how the system itself goes beyond allowing it, to actually encouraging it.
Posted: Wed, 16 Sep 17:19:03
by dysjunct
My view of WoD is that yes, the system allows politicking, in that it has mechanics for doing social things, all the way from manipulating individuals up to crowds etc. But that is like saying that D&D supports politicking because it has a Diplomacy skill. Sure, you technically could run an entire D&D campaign where it's nothing but palace intrigue and no combat. I don't think it would work very well. In old D&D, for example, you'd never get any XP, since you only get that for slaying monsters and recovering treasure.WoD is, at heart, a very 80s system, not that much different than GURPS or Champions. It's generic and you can basically do anything. There are powers added to each of the iterations to give it mechanical differentiation, much like how the GURPS sourcebooks add various powers for each setting. But the fundamental assumption is that the system should simulate the setting and provide rules for anything a character could conceivably do.
To support politicking, IMO, the system would give XP for doing political things. Earn favors, amass wealth, achieve positions of power, etc. But as is system gives XP on an ad hoc basis, mostly under the judgment of the Storyteller. Players choose Aspirations (which might be political, but might not) which the GM can give XP for, if they're achieved. Or the GM gives XP for accomplishing story goals, showing up, or having dramatic failures.
So I think it's fair to say that in WoD, the politicking is primarily down to the lore of the game. Players are encouraged to engage with the setting, which includes the prohibitions against vamp-on-vamp violence, the position of Prince and Sheriff, and so on. But they could also completely ignore all the social stuff on their character sheet. I am old enough to remember when one of the criticisms made by old WoD fans, when the vampire craze of the 90s hit and there was a massive influx of newbs, was that the new players were just playing D&D, but with fangs and claws instead of swords, and disciplines instead of spells.
And as always, this is not to say that WoD isn't fun or that people haven't had amazing political games using the system. I just don't see how the system itself goes beyond allowing it, to actually encouraging it.
Reply: General Role-Playing:: Re: QOTD SEP 16: What is your experience with RPGs that reward player characters for practicing their skills before they need them (eg. katas, drills, workouts etc. in the morning)?
Posted: Wed, 16 Sep 17:15:20
I wouldn't enjoy such a system and I think it's more important to emphasize the action and 'fun' stuff. Similar to how I would assume my professional soldier PC is maintaining his weapons, oiling his gun, restocking his ammo, etc... I would assume that my characters change clothes, sharpen their swords, use the bathroom, eat and drink, etc... when they need to. Similarly, I don't want to have go into detail about how a wuxia type martial artist character goes off and does katas on the side as part of their daily routine, stretching, warm-up, and training. I might say something like "My character goes off and trains for 20 minutes" but I wouldn't be interested in going into detail or roleplaying it.
The exception being that if I were playing some kind of Dragonball Z- esque style game then I suppose that that aspect is kind of important to the narrative and fans enjoy exploring the training. successive opponents, etc... But then it becomes part of the story I guess. (Or maybe it's like a Rocky training montage? :geek_tongue:)
But, for what I think is an apt comparison, most people don't enjoy grinding in videogames - like farming small enemy kills for XP/gold or 'working out' in Grand Theft Auto. (In the San Andreas game I remember you literally had to run around to increase stamina, you could eat food to bulk up, and then go to the gym to get muscular. 😅It was annoying to do, but it had in-game effects like giving you more stamina and health and being better in fights.)
But... again, if it were part of the narrative and people were interested in roleplaying it (like maybe fighting successive colorful opponents, going through challenges in a thieving guild, Luke Skywalker confronting his own "self" in the form of Vader, or just... doing a Rocky style montage) then I could see the merit. Usually, though, I'm interested in doing the detective work, moving the plot forward, etc...
Posted: Wed, 16 Sep 17:15:20
by mic_al
I've never personally played in a system that does that, but I suppose my answer would be more or less the same with respect to other similar questions that were asked (like roleplaying the maintenance of clothes and equipment and rolling to see when equipment/weapons break (excepting botches and natural ones or whatever)):I wouldn't enjoy such a system and I think it's more important to emphasize the action and 'fun' stuff. Similar to how I would assume my professional soldier PC is maintaining his weapons, oiling his gun, restocking his ammo, etc... I would assume that my characters change clothes, sharpen their swords, use the bathroom, eat and drink, etc... when they need to. Similarly, I don't want to have go into detail about how a wuxia type martial artist character goes off and does katas on the side as part of their daily routine, stretching, warm-up, and training. I might say something like "My character goes off and trains for 20 minutes" but I wouldn't be interested in going into detail or roleplaying it.
The exception being that if I were playing some kind of Dragonball Z- esque style game then I suppose that that aspect is kind of important to the narrative and fans enjoy exploring the training. successive opponents, etc... But then it becomes part of the story I guess. (Or maybe it's like a Rocky training montage? :geek_tongue:)
But, for what I think is an apt comparison, most people don't enjoy grinding in videogames - like farming small enemy kills for XP/gold or 'working out' in Grand Theft Auto. (In the San Andreas game I remember you literally had to run around to increase stamina, you could eat food to bulk up, and then go to the gym to get muscular. 😅It was annoying to do, but it had in-game effects like giving you more stamina and health and being better in fights.)
But... again, if it were part of the narrative and people were interested in roleplaying it (like maybe fighting successive colorful opponents, going through challenges in a thieving guild, Luke Skywalker confronting his own "self" in the form of Vader, or just... doing a Rocky style montage) then I could see the merit. Usually, though, I'm interested in doing the detective work, moving the plot forward, etc...
Product For Sale: Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide
Posted: Wed, 16 Sep 17:14:41
Condition: Like New
Location: Greece
Posted: Wed, 16 Sep 17:14:41
by legopaidi
€40.00 for RPG Item: Forgotten Realms Campaign GuideCondition: Like New
Location: Greece
